Corrected entry: While Howard Stark is leaving the military base, in the background there is a white guy with black hair who resembles Loki.
Phaneron
2nd Sep 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Correction: Think about it, probably Loki traveled in time exactly at the same point Tony retrieves the Teserract but we don't know yet, maybe will be explained in Loki's T.V. series and also it's very unlikely that a single guy with long hair and hippie look is on a military base in the 70's.
5th Jun 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: How did Steve return the soul stone?
Answer: As the guardian of the Soul Stone, the Red Skull presumably just showed Steve the spot where he needed to return it. As for how Steve got to Vormir in the first place, he could have either borrowed a spaceship from Asgard or had Heimdall teleport him there via the Bifrost after returning the Reality Stone.
Asgard doesn't exist at the time Steve would return the stone.
It did when they took it so its still there when he brings it back. It's shortly before the dark elves attack.
Yes it does. Clint, Natasha, Rhodey and Nebula all traveled to Morag in 2014 when Quill took the Power Stone, at which point Clint and Natasha took the Guardians' ship and traveled to Vormir to retrieve the Soul Stone. Steve can travel to Asgard in 2014 and ask Heimdall to teleport him to both of those planets. Asgard wasn't destroyed until just before the events of Infinity War.
10th Aug 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: Why didn't Hulk use the Infinity Gauntlet to snap Thanos and his army? He was able to snap everybody that Thanos killed and survived, so he would have survived another snap.
Answer: The gauntlet fell off after his first snap, then Thanos arrived from the past and destroyed the building, separating them. Hulk never got near the gauntlet and the stones during the ensuing battle, so he didn't have an opportunity to try a second snap to destroy Thanos.
Really what they should have done was pulled the stones off the gauntlet and separated them again, and not run around with a fully assembled and powered up Gauntlet for Thanos to grab.
I agree.
That would mean they had to touch them, and nobody besides Hulk, Thor and Carol could touch one without dying.
Ordinary humans can't just grab an infinity stone. Even when Thanos takes the power stone out of gauntlet you see it start to destroy them.
Only the Power Stone has been shown to kill normal people who try to hold it. Hawkeye literally held the Soul Stone in his hand in this movie.
Because he made the necessary sacrifice. Anyone else touching it, big problem. Could be an exception though. The power, reality and space gems have been proven to be untouchable and killing anyone who does (with exceptions though). Time gem is very carefully handled as well so I wouldn't touch that one either. Mind gem, who knows?
I don't recall the Time Stone killing anyone who touched it. The only example I can think of was the Red Skull presumably being killed when he handled the Tesseract, but was in actuality teleported to Vormir. The Reality Stone has a will of its own, so someone could feasibly handle it without harm. You're wonder about the Mind Stone is correct, as no human character was shown in any movie to have handled it directly. Overall though, I would say that I disagree with someone trying to remove a stone from the gauntlet, as one stone could easily be lost, and Thanos could still kill every hero at the battle even with one or more stones missing.
The reality stone attaches itself to anyone touching it like a parasite and slowly kills them. I'd say it's a bad idea to touch it. As for the time stone only the ancient one and Hulk actually touched it and there is reason Strange handles it carefully and without touching it. As for the Red skull, don't really know if he is really alive on Vormir. Who knows what the tesseract did to him?
Whether or not Red Skull is still alive is an interesting topic, but either way, I'd argue that while the Tesseract transported him, it itself is not what made him in his current state, but rather his curse to guard the Soul Stone and the planet of Vormir itself, as it is a dominion of death as Nebula stated.
14th Jun 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: Why did time not end when Thanos destroyed the stones, and what happens in now there aren't any? The Ancient One stated that the stones control the flow of time, and removing even one of these opens up the world to unimaginable horror. Well why did nothing happen after Thanos destroyed them all? And now that our timeline has no stones, how would Dr. Strange be able to stop Dormammu from coming back?
Answer: The way I understood it, removing the stones from one timeline into another timeline is what The Ancient One was talking about. The "new branched reality" is what would be overrun by the forces of darkness. But, even if she meant this reality, the reality where Thanos destroyed the stones, The Ancient One said it was their chief weapon, not their only weapon. Bruce then tells her Doctor Strange gave the time stone to Thanos and The Ancient One says maybe she made a mistake. However, since Thanos eliminates half the population of the universe, including the forces of darkness, whatever forces she was talking about may not have been around to try and attack Earth. Or in the 5 years that we don't see, there was an attempt and other weapons were sufficient.
Answer: In the comics the stones will be replaced by something else equally powerful to compensate for their loss. I suppose the same applies to the MCU. These powers need to have a physical presence in the universe, in one way or another.
The only problem is the films never insinuate this at all. The Ancient One flat out states that not having the stones would be bad for the universe, and yet Thanos destroys the stones with absolutely no adverse affects to the universe whatsoever. This movie played very fast and loose with the rules they established regarding the stones and time travel and I feel like things like this were massive flaws.
The universe is a pretty big place, though. There could very well be bad things in another part of the universe that have yet to affect our galaxy. Additionally, the forces of darkness that could potentially threaten the universe may be curbed by a cosmic entity such as the Living Tribunal, whose existence in the MCU was acknowledged in "Doctor Strange" and could very well appear in "The Eternals" or "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3."
I just believe the ancient one didn't even know. The ancient one isn't always correct, as Bruce proved. And the bad thing was taking the stones away from their timeline, creating timelines where they are not supposed to be, it says nothing about destroying them.
That to me is still bad writing. You have a character whose entire purpose in the movie is to give exposition, and the exposition she gives is apparently incorrect. That's all well and good but that still needs to be addressed at some point. Some character should have brought up the fact that the stones were destroyed (and incidentally, remain destroyed in the main timeline) and the Ancient One should have addressed that fact. Otherwise, like the original question points out, it leaves a bit of a gap in the film's logic.
Answer: I believe the filmmakers have said that the energy of the stones was dissipated into the universe when their crystal vessels were destroyed. So that while they didn't have a physical form anymore, their essence remained and continued to regulate the flow of existence of the Universe. Presumably the energy can't then be reconstituted into the stones without some sort of profoundly intricate magic/science, the kind of power only possessed by gods and/or ancient elemental beings. Also, the Ancient One says that Hulk taking the time stone would be good for his timeline, but would leave hers without their weapon, which I presume means they wouldn't have the time stone to help the Sanctum's usual efforts in holding dark magic at bay. The actual effect of removing the essence of a stone from its timeline is still open to speculation.
If the ancient one was only talking about the time stone then Cap wouldn't have to bother bringing all stones back. No, she was talking about all infinity gems. Remove a stone and that universe is doomed.
Answer: The sorcerers may have other ways to stop Dormmamu from returning (even if those ways are currently unbeknownst to them). This could be addressed in the sequel. Additionally, since Dormmamu would have to know that the Time Stone was destroyed in the first place, he may well just stay away rather than falsely believing that he can be trapped in a time loop again.
Answer: She said the world not the universe. She said "without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness our world will be overrun." Theory: since Thanos used the stones to destroy the stones and Hulk heard what the Ancient One said, he could have used the stones to bring back their stones along with everyone else. He couldn't have know who all died in the universe, he could have just undid everything from 5 years ago.
30th Apr 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Corrected entry: When the Avengers got the space stone and mind stone from the past, they were in the form of the Tesseract and the scepter, but when Steve goes back to replace them, they are in their raw forms. If they want to undo any offshoot timelines, they would have to replace the time stones in their original encasements, at least some of which have been destroyed in the process of obtaining the raw stones. If the Tesseract doesn't exist in Tesseract form before Captain Marvel, would the light speed ship by Dr Larson have been made, etc. And the events of Avengers 1 would have been altered...Ultron/Vision/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver timelines would likely be disrupted if the scepter itself is not replaced, only the mind stone. It would be an anomaly in the time line.
Correction: They aren't concerned with creating any alternate timelines, as they won't affect their own timeline. They only agree to return the Stones to the point where they are taken in order to avoid any major catastrophes being caused by the Stones' absence in their respective timelines (i.e. the Ancient One tells Dr. Banner that she needs the Time Stone returned to her reality, as it is her chief weapon against forces of darkness). The Mind Stone ending up in an alternate timeline as a result of being removed from Loki's scepter and not leading to the creation of Ultron or giving the Maximoff twins their powers will not lead to a catastrophic event.
This is not consistent with Captain America's comment "I know, clip all the branches"
Another way around that would be to return the Time Stone to the Ancient One first and then have her use the Time Stone to return the Space and Mind Stones to their previous housings. We know the Time Stone is capable of doing that because Thanos used it to bring the Mind Stone back into existence after Scarlet Witch destroyed it.
Their primary concern appears to be removing the stones from where they "should" be, or taking one and leaving others - the ancient one implies it's that imbalance which causes a "bad" timeline to branch off, the black line she demonstrates, not just making other changes. Otherwise even Hawkeye going back in time and removing a baseball glove would have catastrophic consequences and need to be remedied.
He has the infinity stones. It's quite possible he could have used them in some fashion to return the others to the original form. For example, he could have done it or asked the Ancient One to use the time stone to return them to their original form. Regardless, there is no way he or Hulk wouldn't have planned for this before he left. They were in no rush to return them. They had a time machine.
25th Apr 2019
Avengers: Endgame (2019)
Question: Spoiler! Time seems to be defined as somewhat linear, with alternate realities branching off rather than changing the past of any given timeline. But if that's the case, how can Steve go back in time and stay, which should branch off a new reality with him in it, but then "catch up" with "our" reality? Seems like if he stayed in the past he'll have made plenty of changes.
Answer: The Russo brothers have elaborated somewhat: "the old Cap at the end of the movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam." They didn't explain his jump back, which leaves the door open for interdimensional travel. They certainly implied there's a bit more to the story which might get revealed in time. But thus far we know there's an alternate timeline where 2019 Cap was running around helping people (again, per Russo interviews), not interfering with "our" timeline.
Answer: He stayed behind but didn't reveal himself or change anything whilst there. That way the future isn't altered and stays "the same." This does mean that the timeline we have been following is the timeline where Cap stayed behind and there were basically 2 Steve Rogers at all times. That can theoretically work in a linear timeline idea.
True, I think that does mostly line up. Peggy told him she got married to someone he rescued, but that could easily have been a cover story so as not to tip him off about what happens too early.
He originally had the tools to go back return the stones and then return back to his timeline. Instead of returning back right away when the job was done he just hung around and lived his life. Then as an old man used the particle to return back to his original timeline effectively leaving the different timeline he had just been living in for the last however many years. He could always return back to the the original timeline at any point. He just decided to wait.
Yeah see I don't agre to this because if he had used the particles again to go back to the future after living his life in the past he would have ended up on the platform wouldn't he? I say he just grew old and waited for that moment of his younger self going to back to sit down on that bench.
That's not possible. (a) He was in the ice for 60 years. How would he know what not to do? (b) There's nothing he could do that wouldn't change the timeline. Anything he did means someone else didn't do it from the previous timeline. A house he rented, food he ate, places he went. Even whatever fake name he uses alters history as it wasn't there before.
The point is all those things did exist, but they didn't mess with the events that occurred in the movies. So not a different timeline than the one we have been following, but the same. This can only be done if the second Cap stays out of history. I'm not a fan of the butterfly effect, it doesn't have any basis, that's why I always explain timelines in this way. An extra spoon in the dishwasher or an extra tank of gasoline doesn't change the timeline so much that it can't be the one we were following anymore. So yes, he changed the timeline, but that's the timeline we have been following.
Answer: Since Cap was frozen for 70 years, he could potentially live out his life back in that time without risking interfering with his future self's actions which would allow him to arrive back to the same point where he left. It's not too dissimilar from the first two "Back to the Future" films where Marty arrives back in 1985 from 1955. As long as Marty takes no actions to prevent himself from going back in time in that moment, then he can arrive back to the same point he left without causing a major disruption in the space-time continuum. Consequently though, since Cap married Peggy when he went back, this would effectively erase the marriage she revealed having had in "The Winter Soldier," which could cause minor differences in the timeline.
This is the point though - it's made clear that they can't change the past, just branch off a new timeline. And given we know she got married in "our" timeline, him going back created a new one, one where she married him instead. And that's all well and good, but that leaves him stranded in timeline "B", with no way to jump back to "A." That said of course there's no real reason this couldn't be hand-waved away as using Dr. Strange or other tech to cross dimensions somehow, it's just mildly annoying they didn't clarify it. :-).
Well the way they did it makes it complicated I think. The Pym particles made a certain type of time travel possible I think, a different kind than the time gem for example can do. It's irreversible, but not linear. The linear timeline is what the ancient one explained about the gems. They had to be put back in their place in time in order for the fabric of the universe to stay in tact. Only that had to be restored, but not what Cap did, or even creating alternate timelines in general (which did happen with Loki disappearing).
I feel though that since two Caps were existing in the same timeline, one of which was frozen for several decades, then the Cap that went back to be with Peggy can still end up in the same spot as long as he doesn't interfere with himself or his fellow Avengers in their "future" missions. He might cause a slightly different timeline to happen, but as long as he lets his other self play out the events as they originally unfolded, it allows that other self to be in the same position to travel back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, rendering any branching timeline to be inconsequential because he is putting himself in a time loop. Just like Marty in "Back to the Future." Marty's actions in the past create a slightly new timeline, but he is still traveling back to 1955 at the exact same point in this slightly different 1985.
Can't compare it to Back to the Future, there was always 1 Marty in Back to the Future since he goes back to a time before he was born. The changes to the timeline in Back to the Future should have butterflied a lot away. Not sure what you mean with "still end up in the same spot" if there are 2 Caps. The Cap that went back to be with Peggy didn't have to "end up in the same spot", just stay out of history until his past self goes back. Like you say, it's a loop for him.
By "end up in the same spot," I mean the Cap that coexists with the Cap that goes back in time is allowed to play out the events from "The Avengers," "The Winter Soldier," "Civil War," etc. without his alternate self interfering in matters, thus he is able to reach the same point in time where he goes back to return the Infinity Stones and then be with Peggy, which is what creates/continues his loop.
He wouldn't be stranded in "B" if he still had his TimeGPS device (which I imagine he would've held onto). That could have allowed him to make the jump back to the "A" timeline. That device is what links/keeps the time traveler tethered/able to return to their original timeline and not get stuck. Either he used it to make the jump back as he normally would have, or he could've employed some of the great minds of the alternate "B" timeline he was living in (i.e. Hank Pym, Howard Stark (if he prevented his assassination in the "B" timeline), Tony Stark, etc...) to use the GPS's 'tether' as a way to get back to "A"
Exactly. What people seem to miss is that throughout the movie, the time travelers are creating alternate timelines, but always return to their original one. That's the way time travel works in the MCU.
That's a good point - if they go to the battle of New York and make any change at all, that's a new timeline which they're technically in, but they can still return to their original one without any problem. That new one then carries on without them.
Answer: What's interesting is that during Civil War when Peggy dies and people are carrying her coffin, there is a white haired man of Steve's build carrying one side, but it never shows his face. I believe this is a little Easter egg to show he was there all along.
Answer: Remember Cap took three vials of Pym particles. One for himself and Tony and another for this reason.
Answer: Theory 1: The MCU as we know it is a product of Captain America going back in time and returning the stones. Theory 2: the older Captain America is from another timeline. That's how he got a new shield.
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Correction: And? Just because someone resembles Loki doesn't mean that it is or was ever intended to be a reference to Loki.
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